In a conversation between Zoe Booth and Will Shackel, the focus is on addressing the energy challenges facing Australia, particularly the rising cost of electricity and the structural hurdles within the national grid. Shackel, a proponent of nuclear power, argues for a diversified energy mix that includes nuclear energy, emphasizing its reliability and low emissions. Despite Australia's progress in renewable energy integration, concerns persist regarding high power bills, emissions, and grid stability. The discussion underscores the need for a comprehensive approach to energy policy, leveraging all clean energy options to achieve energy security and emission reduction goals. Shackel highlights the significance of nuclear power, especially in the form of small modular reactors, in addressing these challenges effectively. The complexity of the energy grid, marked by the variability of renewables, necessitates solutions like firming technologies to ensure a consistent power supply. Shackel explains the concept of firming, which involves technologies such as batteries, pumped hydro storage, and gas peaking plants to bridge gaps in renewable energy generation. Overall, the conversation advocates for a balanced energy mix, incorporating nuclear power alongside renewables to meet Australia's economic, environmental, and energy security objectives.